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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode 362 for the 27th of sep tember

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2015 Heidi Robertson here from the

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beautiful far north coast of New South

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Wales filling in for Richard Saunders

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who is unwell ah well at least he has

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Fred the cat to talk to coming up on

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this week's show before Richard caught

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the man flu he visited dr. shevaun

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O'Sullivan who is a podcaster and an

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expert in animal politics and Welfare

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Cheban will give us her opinion on the

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Paleo diet and so called animal psychics

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or communicators I don't know what's so

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skeptical about that I have two dogs who

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regularly talk with me telepathically

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it's mostly Pat me now Pat me again

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here's my bottom for you to patch is

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that a bone for me I'm so happy to see

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you because I haven't seen you for five

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minutes can I have more pads after that

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it's a week in science from their royal

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institution of Australia w WR I a USO

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Jey you and then to wrap up the show

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it's the raw skeptic report with me a

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few months ago myself and some friends

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went to the live stage show of someone

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claiming to be a psychic did she have

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mystical insights find out when I

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analyze some of her readings and I must

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recommend the full facts book of cold

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reading by Ian Rowland I know that

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richard has used this for many years and

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it even helped him when he was the

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sceptical judge on the TV show the one

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there will be a link to the book in the

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show notes for this episode I hope I can

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meet you at the upcoming Australian

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skeptics convention in Brisbane and in

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fact you might meet all the skeptics own

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team there just look for the skeptics

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own table who knows you might end up on

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the show and while I have the microphone

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I may as well give a plug for the group

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I'm involved with the Northern Rivers

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nation supporters you can find us on

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Facebook and Twitter and at nrvs dot

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info but for now I'm going to run up the

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road to the local cafe and grab myself

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some of the best sushi the Northern

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Rivers has to offer sit outside with it

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and look at the view while I'm doing

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that please enjoy listening to the

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I've come here to the suburb of

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Annandale to visit my friend dr. sivana

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Sutherland hello jabon hello Richard

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it's really nice to see you know we've

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met a course because you started the

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Sydney podcasting meetup group that's

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right yes so I started that group

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earlier in the year and you came along

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to the very first meetup in Newtown and

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you won't be one of our great

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contributors and supporters ever since

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well I had the great pleasure of

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speaking a couple of weeks ago for the

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meetup group and I told the crowd about

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the making of the skeptic zone and it

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was really fun yes it was wonderful you

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showed us how you edit your program it

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was really interesting so you can vouch

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for the listeners they actually do sit

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down and edit you do and it's very

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elaborate and you put a lot of effort

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into it and I think there are probably a

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lot of podcasters out there who if they

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put in even a fraction at the end that

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you put in would be getting a better

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quality product so you know you could

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put a lot of work into it you can be a

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guest on the show any time now I've come

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here to visit you today shimano and

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thank you for the coffee too because

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you've got a podcast knowing animals

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let's talk a little bit about that but

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also from a critical thinking skeptical

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point of view you've got some

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interesting ideas and thoughts put

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forwards on things like paleo diet

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vegetarianism and things like that and

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also from your point of view we're going

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to be discussing animal communicators

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yes this is business communicating with

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animals more than grunts and squeaks and

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yes and barks and meows and things like

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that first of all what is your

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background and what is your podcast all

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about my podcast is called knowing

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animals and it is a regular podcast in

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which I talk to an animal studies

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scholar so somebody who may be is in law

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or politics or sociology or English

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literature who's doing some kind of work

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that brings into question our

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relationship with animals so each

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episode is framed around a particular

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piece of work so a book or

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article that that scholar has produced

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and we discussed that piece of work what

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motivated them what they found and then

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I end every episode with five quick

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questions you know in which I asked all

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my guess the same series of questions so

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it's a bit of a survey a bit of a sample

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and so I've been doing that for about

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the past five or six months and more

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recently I've introduced a new stream

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into the podcast which I'm calling

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protecting animals and that that stream

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is where I speak to animal advocates

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about their work and so the first

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protecting animals episode went up a

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couple of weeks ago and I spoke to a

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manual from voiceless and in coming

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weeks I'm going to speak to Lee Rhiannon

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who is a green senator and also holds

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their animal welfare portfolio so I

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talked to them about contemporary issues

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what motivates them what they concern

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about what they're working on so the

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podcast is a mix like that so my

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background is as a political scientist I

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did my PhD at Sydney University and I

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had a look at the way in which we

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construct animal welfare legislation and

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that research led on to my book which is

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called animals equality and democracy

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and since then I've gone on to do a

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whole range of different research into

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animal issues particularly around animal

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welfare laws the statutes we create to

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regulate the lives of animals and also a

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little bit into the animal protection

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movement trespass and illegal activity

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by animal activist and that kind of

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things that's interesting so you must

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have seen a lot of changes I in the way

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animal activists go about their business

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that too but also in general animal

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welfare in our society yeah well it's

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actually a really interesting point that

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you raised Richard because what I have

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seen is a big shift in attitudes towards

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animals and concern about animals so for

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example many people now consider their

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companion animals to be a cherished

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member of the family and there's been

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quite a bit of research into companion

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animals encroachment into the home so in

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the kind of 60 50 60 s the dog was

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always outside and by the 70s and 80s

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and coming to the lounger

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and now many people will have their dog

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sleeping in the bed with them that's

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right yeah so those things have changed

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and along the way things like attitudes

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towards things like the battery check

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age have also changed so for example

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there was a time probably about 20 years

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ago when people were completely

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oblivious to the use of the battery cage

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for egg-laying hens if you talked about

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honey shoes it was considered to be a

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joke hens were kind of above being

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considered as important animals that

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should be which whose welfare we should

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be concerned about and now it's almost

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impossible to find eggs from hens in

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battery cages in the supermarket so

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there has been a shift in society but

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what there hasn't been is a changing the

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laws so the laws really lagged behind

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our cultural values and when it comes to

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looking at the structure of animal

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welfare law in fact very little change

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in 200 years and I guess you wouldn't be

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following this line unless you had a

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very deep personal interest in animals

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and their welfare yes so my academic

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study of animal issues began in my

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honours year and so typically in the

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honors you your students are told that

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they can do research into anything that

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they find interesting it's kind of

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thrown wide open until then I've done a

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very traditional political science

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degree and so when I was given the

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opportunity to study kind of anything I

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thought well I'm interested in animals

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and i'm interested in property rides and

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sign it up doing it on his thesis on

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that topic and then that naturally led

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into my PhD and it's very common for

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people once they start to build a

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momentum in a particular research feel

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that they continue on with that research

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because they've already got knowledge

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and capital and all the rest of it now

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what's your interest then this you spoke

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to me this about this the other night

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when we had a podcast meet up and we

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toured a radio station here in sitting

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that was interesting they were folk

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sydney podcasters it's a good it's a

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good podcast meetup group i think it is

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with babies look for some mater yes

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don't worry linked a link to it in the

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show no thank you

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and we were discussing things like the

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Paleo diet now what's your take on all

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that I think the Paleo diet is the kind

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of issue that people interested in

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skepticism and science and all that kind

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of thing should be interested in my

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understanding is that the people who are

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advocating paleo diets tend to be

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celebrity chefs and the people who are

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suggesting that the thinking that

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underpins paleo diet is deeply flawed

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tend to be evolutionary biologists

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historians academics trained

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nutritionist etc and so it's one of

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these very gimmicky very popular ways of

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rethinking food which doesn't seem to

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have a good scientific background or

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basis and my interest is twofold one is

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I think that it's harmful for animals if

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people believe things that are untrue

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about the volume in which animal should

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be eaten right and I also think it's

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probably harmful for humans to be

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consuming vast amounts of animal protein

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and so I do think that it is our flawed

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science if it can be considered for

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science at all I mean it's kind of a

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popular ism yeah yeah and it has all the

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red flags that weird skeptics look out

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for a fad diet the catchy name the

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celebrity endorsement all this sort of

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thing yeah and on it just for me when

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the first time I heard about it it just

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sounded silly oh look what I think it's

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an interesting one and I wonder if this

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is also the kind of thing that you look

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out for a around in skeptic circles on

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the face of it it seems as though it

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could make sense so the fundamental

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contemporary agriculture evolved very

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recently in evolutionary terms prior to

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that human beings had been eating

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particular types of diets humans haven't

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had a chance to evolve as quickly as

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contemporary agriculture and therefore

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if you eat content

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foods you're not eating in a way to

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which your body is evolved yeah that's

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the argument yeah so it seems on the

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face of it as perhaps it makes sense

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yeah but that depends on a whole range

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of flawed assumptions such as the rate

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at which human beings do evolve are the

273
00:12:24,180 --> 00:12:22,300
type of diet that was being eaten by and

274
00:12:26,130 --> 00:12:24,190
at what stage of the evolution that

275
00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:26,140
particular diet was being eaten too i

276
00:12:30,570 --> 00:12:28,690
don't imagine that's right and also how

277
00:12:33,900 --> 00:12:30,580
could it be very narrow window like

278
00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:33,910
hofer i guess yeah well look i wish i

279
00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:36,910
was doing some reading this morning just

280
00:12:41,790 --> 00:12:40,240
to refresh my mind and there's quite a

281
00:12:44,340 --> 00:12:41,800
few interesting pieces up on the

282
00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:44,350
conversation so the conversation i find

283
00:12:48,780 --> 00:12:45,910
is quite a good source of information

284
00:12:51,510 --> 00:12:48,790
because it's written by academics who

285
00:12:54,780 --> 00:12:51,520
have an expertise in the area when they

286
00:12:58,200 --> 00:12:54,790
write about it and they're all damning

287
00:13:00,930 --> 00:12:58,210
off the Paleo diet but it's it was

288
00:13:02,490 --> 00:13:00,940
really interesting reading about the

289
00:13:04,380 --> 00:13:02,500
human evolutionary history and how

290
00:13:06,990 --> 00:13:04,390
quickly for example humans have adapted

291
00:13:09,420 --> 00:13:07,000
to dairy now I'm vegan and I don't

292
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:09,430
advocate eating dairy or consuming dairy

293
00:13:14,460 --> 00:13:11,410
but not because I think it's problematic

294
00:13:15,780 --> 00:13:14,470
from a human consumption perspective I

295
00:13:17,490 --> 00:13:15,790
think it's problematic from the

296
00:13:20,430 --> 00:13:17,500
perspective of the calf who is the

297
00:13:23,220 --> 00:13:20,440
byproduct and is killed so to me a vegan

298
00:13:25,380 --> 00:13:23,230
diet is an ethical consideration but

299
00:13:29,460 --> 00:13:25,390
people try to build very strange

300
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:29,470
arguments that use um this quasi science

301
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:30,970
or these kind of mock science around

302
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:33,610
nutrition and I think it's I think it's

303
00:13:39,380 --> 00:13:35,770
problematic mmm that's very interesting

304
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:39,390
and listen is if you have a particular

305
00:13:44,850 --> 00:13:43,330
sort on this topic I guess the best

306
00:13:47,190 --> 00:13:44,860
place would be for you to head to our

307
00:13:50,430 --> 00:13:47,200
Facebook page and the link is on the

308
00:13:52,350 --> 00:13:50,440
description website and you can share

309
00:13:54,210 --> 00:13:52,360
your thoughts in the comments for this

310
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:54,220
episode I'm sure Siobhan would be

311
00:13:58,560 --> 00:13:55,930
interested to hear what our listeners

312
00:14:01,380 --> 00:13:58,570
have to say about that now let's look at

313
00:14:03,450 --> 00:14:01,390
it something a bit more what would mites

314
00:14:05,550 --> 00:14:03,460
like old-fashioned skepticism here's

315
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:05,560
your one and I and I we were discussing

316
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:06,850
this the other day and I showed you a

317
00:14:12,490 --> 00:14:09,410
video oh boy

318
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:12,500
a horse communicator or well a general

319
00:14:17,740 --> 00:14:14,480
animal psychic these are the people of

320
00:14:20,350 --> 00:14:17,750
course who will tell you that they have

321
00:14:22,210 --> 00:14:20,360
a special spiritual connection with

322
00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:22,220
animals now you can interpret that many

323
00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:25,310
ways I mean I could argue depending on

324
00:14:29,259 --> 00:14:27,170
how you use the language that I have a

325
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:29,269
spiritual connection with Fred my cat I

326
00:14:33,939 --> 00:14:31,370
don't mean that in a paranormal sense or

327
00:14:36,670 --> 00:14:33,949
metaphysical sense i just felt as a good

328
00:14:38,319 --> 00:14:36,680
cat you know and we get on but here we

329
00:14:39,610 --> 00:14:38,329
have a group of people all around the

330
00:14:43,210 --> 00:14:39,620
world who claim that they are getting

331
00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:43,220
basically telepathic messages from the

332
00:14:49,540 --> 00:14:46,160
minds of animals and what I find

333
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:49,550
interesting is that it they they're

334
00:14:54,610 --> 00:14:52,610
imposing human-like thinking upon an

335
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:54,620
animal so they'll say this animal is

336
00:14:58,269 --> 00:14:56,720
thinking these complex complex sports

337
00:15:01,090 --> 00:14:58,279
about thoughts and emotions and needs

338
00:15:03,069 --> 00:15:01,100
and wants and stuff whereas I will

339
00:15:05,199 --> 00:15:03,079
assume that I'm right in thinking the

340
00:15:10,210 --> 00:15:05,209
animals simply don't possess that level

341
00:15:13,150 --> 00:15:10,220
of cognitive function probably not I

342
00:15:15,550 --> 00:15:13,160
think that animals probably do have a

343
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:15,560
range of thoughts but I don't think that

344
00:15:19,929 --> 00:15:18,079
they are by any means as complex as the

345
00:15:23,019 --> 00:15:19,939
types of thoughts many humans have I

346
00:15:27,370 --> 00:15:23,029
think it's around the age of three that

347
00:15:29,769 --> 00:15:27,380
human beings begin to surpass non-human

348
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:29,779
animals and particularly the smarter and

349
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:31,610
more such as dogs and pigs and that kind

350
00:15:37,749 --> 00:15:34,850
of thing yeah our brain is more complex

351
00:15:39,910 --> 00:15:37,759
and the wiring is more complex yeah it

352
00:15:42,309 --> 00:15:39,920
absolutely is and of course by the age

353
00:15:44,740 --> 00:15:42,319
of three or four of it we've already

354
00:15:47,650 --> 00:15:44,750
surpassed our closest relative being the

355
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:47,660
chimpanzee so a four-year-old child can

356
00:15:52,059 --> 00:15:50,480
do far more than the smartest chimp but

357
00:15:53,650 --> 00:15:52,069
that's that's fine it's just the way the

358
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:53,660
way right so here we have a group of

359
00:16:00,220 --> 00:15:56,240
people who to wipe my way of thinking of

360
00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:00,230
really like most psychics we meet my

361
00:16:05,019 --> 00:16:02,720
self-deluded with a small residual being

362
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:05,029
the con sharks out there now I also

363
00:16:09,069 --> 00:16:07,490
think this is doing ultimately it's not

364
00:16:11,889 --> 00:16:09,079
it's not only doing people at the

365
00:16:13,540 --> 00:16:11,899
service because it's not true but I

366
00:16:16,929 --> 00:16:13,550
think it could be doing animals a

367
00:16:19,449 --> 00:16:16,939
disservice to hmm and my way of thinking

368
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:19,459
Brown that is say if somebody went out

369
00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:20,410
to

370
00:16:24,119 --> 00:16:22,720
communicate with a horse is the video we

371
00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:24,129
saw the other day and the horse has a

372
00:16:28,079 --> 00:16:26,110
real problem who said the horse has a

373
00:16:29,579 --> 00:16:28,089
real problem these people aren't

374
00:16:31,559 --> 00:16:29,589
qualified fats they're not qualified to

375
00:16:33,439 --> 00:16:31,569
pick up Don this problem and maybe the

376
00:16:36,180 --> 00:16:33,449
horse like humans could go undiagnosed

377
00:16:39,530 --> 00:16:36,190
hmm yeah look I do think it's

378
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:39,540
problematic I think that if people are

379
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:42,850
trying to diagnose health issues with

380
00:16:48,269 --> 00:16:46,000
non-human animals using psychics rather

381
00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:48,279
than vets they're making a serious error

382
00:16:53,069 --> 00:16:51,279
in judgment and the individual who will

383
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:53,079
suffer the most as a result of that is

384
00:16:57,900 --> 00:16:55,839
the animal I think that um look

385
00:17:00,329 --> 00:16:57,910
federally science has a crazy history I

386
00:17:03,990 --> 00:17:00,339
mean that the history of veterinary

387
00:17:07,620 --> 00:17:04,000
science was very much associated to with

388
00:17:10,439 --> 00:17:07,630
the military so they actually began with

389
00:17:12,539 --> 00:17:10,449
our horses that was the first area of

390
00:17:15,059 --> 00:17:12,549
expertise and the reason they they ever

391
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:15,069
had vets was to help them deploy large

392
00:17:20,340 --> 00:17:17,650
armies but originally they were just the

393
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:20,350
shoes so horseshoers became the early

394
00:17:26,340 --> 00:17:22,240
vets and a lot of what they did was

395
00:17:28,230 --> 00:17:26,350
absolute quackery applying fire was one

396
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:28,240
of the biggest ways in which they tried

397
00:17:35,370 --> 00:17:33,039
to heal horses and it was as described

398
00:17:36,990 --> 00:17:35,380
it was all full but this was quite a few

399
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:37,000
hundred years ago and read any science

400
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:39,490
has come a long way and I do strongly

401
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:42,370
believe that if an animal is sick or

402
00:17:47,779 --> 00:17:45,039
needs assistance of it is by far and

403
00:17:50,430 --> 00:17:47,789
away the best place to go for diagnosis

404
00:17:53,159 --> 00:17:50,440
um but I was just going to pick up on a

405
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:53,169
point earlier it's interesting because I

406
00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:55,360
spent quite a bit of time around people

407
00:17:59,880 --> 00:17:57,520
who are very passionate about animals I

408
00:18:01,620 --> 00:17:59,890
worked for a small animal charity many

409
00:18:03,570 --> 00:18:01,630
years ago called world league for

410
00:18:05,070 --> 00:18:03,580
protection of animals and I spent quite

411
00:18:08,909 --> 00:18:05,080
a bit of time associating with people

412
00:18:11,690 --> 00:18:08,919
who are vegetarian or vegan or inter

413
00:18:15,930 --> 00:18:11,700
animal rights in some manifestation and

414
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:15,940
I think that you do tend to find a

415
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:18,130
disproportionate number of people with

416
00:18:23,460 --> 00:18:20,650
mental health problems who are very

417
00:18:25,260 --> 00:18:23,470
passionate about animal issues and I

418
00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:25,270
think part of the reason for that is

419
00:18:30,820 --> 00:18:28,720
that animals and non-judgmental so if

420
00:18:32,590 --> 00:18:30,830
you're someone who's socially isolated

421
00:18:34,330 --> 00:18:32,600
you can perhaps still have a very nice

422
00:18:37,690 --> 00:18:34,340
relationship with your dog or your cat

423
00:18:39,370 --> 00:18:37,700
etc but I think with that also comes the

424
00:18:41,350 --> 00:18:39,380
risk that people do begin to believe

425
00:18:43,779 --> 00:18:41,360
that the animals are communicating with

426
00:18:47,049 --> 00:18:43,789
them so I think there is at least a

427
00:18:49,899 --> 00:18:47,059
proportion of the community who do hear

428
00:18:53,889 --> 00:18:49,909
messages from their very dearly loved

429
00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:53,899
cats and dogs but this is a sign of an

430
00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:56,480
unfortunate mental healthy yeah but it's

431
00:19:00,250 --> 00:18:57,679
a really interesting point you raised

432
00:19:02,769 --> 00:19:00,260
because my own personal experience with

433
00:19:05,139 --> 00:19:02,779
Fred the cat I mean we can pretend and

434
00:19:07,029 --> 00:19:05,149
we delude ourselves in a very nice way

435
00:19:09,279 --> 00:19:07,039
that frames telling us something or

436
00:19:13,149 --> 00:19:09,289
Fred's feeling this way always wants

437
00:19:14,919 --> 00:19:13,159
this and that which by and large if he

438
00:19:16,299 --> 00:19:14,929
wants food or water that's fine and

439
00:19:20,289 --> 00:19:16,309
stuff like that but of course he's not

440
00:19:23,470 --> 00:19:20,299
communicating with us very complex no

441
00:19:26,019 --> 00:19:23,480
needs and wants and reasoning no no I

442
00:19:28,620 --> 00:19:26,029
got not Fred the cat anyway know if I'm

443
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:28,630
hearing a complex mission from your cat

444
00:19:34,419 --> 00:19:31,610
unfortunately you don't it's I learnt

445
00:19:36,250 --> 00:19:34,429
from either of the snake I can totally

446
00:19:38,580 --> 00:19:36,260
now you're talking about I can totally

447
00:19:42,399 --> 00:19:38,590
see why is it would be very seductive

448
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:42,409
yeah um fitting oh yes yes especially if

449
00:19:46,810 --> 00:19:43,730
they're your best friend and you're

450
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:46,820
hearing voices anyway if I to come from

451
00:19:54,340 --> 00:19:52,880
your your close companion um yes maybe

452
00:19:56,889 --> 00:19:54,350
there's one on that plane going over

453
00:19:58,090 --> 00:19:56,899
here listen wow that's close listeners

454
00:20:01,180 --> 00:19:58,100
might have you heard the old plane

455
00:20:02,980 --> 00:20:01,190
flying over where I think we're not only

456
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:02,990
directly under the flight path I think

457
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:05,840
we're on the runway itself he goes

458
00:20:12,789 --> 00:20:10,159
another one so I can imagine that how

459
00:20:14,740 --> 00:20:12,799
comforting is that yes for for some

460
00:20:17,649 --> 00:20:14,750
people fruitful lots of people don't

461
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:17,659
know pizza been popular or companion

462
00:20:21,970 --> 00:20:20,210
animals and humans have a lot huge he's

463
00:20:27,159 --> 00:20:21,980
too long history without a hostel yeah

464
00:20:31,210 --> 00:20:27,169
yeah look my sadly deceased cat sasha

465
00:20:33,940 --> 00:20:31,220
was able to a comp was able to adapt her

466
00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:33,950
behavior in response to daylight savings

467
00:20:39,010 --> 00:20:37,760
so she really liked to be patted her

468
00:20:42,519 --> 00:20:39,020
favorite thing was sitting on her lap

469
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:42,529
and be patted and my father would oblige

470
00:20:46,750 --> 00:20:44,690
her at say five o'clock

471
00:20:49,330 --> 00:20:46,760
the cloth if he sat down to watch Deal

472
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:49,340
or No Deal and after a while she would

473
00:20:53,470 --> 00:20:51,410
work out that the all the time to change

474
00:20:56,530 --> 00:20:53,480
and she needs to show up an hour earlier

475
00:20:59,370 --> 00:20:56,540
or an hour later so there is some kind

476
00:21:01,750 --> 00:20:59,380
of logical but she was not having

477
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:01,760
profound thoughts about you she was

478
00:21:04,750 --> 00:21:03,290
merely working out that she wasn't

479
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:04,760
getting what she wanted at particular

480
00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:07,370
times and adapting modifying her

481
00:21:11,710 --> 00:21:09,200
behavior that's right so what I'll do

482
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:11,720
listen is for your benefit I will on the

483
00:21:17,890 --> 00:21:13,250
show notes for this episode I'll also

484
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:17,900
link to the the horse psychic video that

485
00:21:21,850 --> 00:21:19,850
you and I watched while I watched and I

486
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:21,860
think you tried to watch it I truly

487
00:21:26,140 --> 00:21:23,450
watch the whole thing it looked very

488
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:26,150
much like a woman petting a whole system

489
00:21:33,790 --> 00:21:30,770
Oh dearie me well Siobhan again what's

490
00:21:35,740 --> 00:21:33,800
your podcast it snowing animals yes yes

491
00:21:38,860 --> 00:21:35,750
it snowing animals it's up on iTunes

492
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:38,870
it's also got its own lipson which is a

493
00:21:45,340 --> 00:21:42,410
popular podcast location page but if you

494
00:21:48,100 --> 00:21:45,350
just put knowing animals podcast into

495
00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:48,110
Google there's also a Facebook page and

496
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:50,000
a Twitter account so it's not hard to

497
00:21:54,820 --> 00:21:52,370
find and certainly if you put my name in

498
00:21:56,650 --> 00:21:54,830
with it you'll get their energy and some

499
00:21:59,260 --> 00:21:56,660
episodes ago your guess was Peter Singer

500
00:22:01,900 --> 00:21:59,270
yes known to many skeptics very famous

501
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:01,910
man yet yes Peter Singer did an episode

502
00:22:07,210 --> 00:22:05,690
a few weeks ago and it was fantastic it

503
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:07,220
was really interesting to hear his

504
00:22:11,980 --> 00:22:09,290
thoughts we spoke about his very

505
00:22:13,930 --> 00:22:11,990
influential book Animal Liberation and

506
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:13,940
yeah I invite your listeners to check

507
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:16,250
out that episode fantastic well dr.

508
00:22:21,610 --> 00:22:18,970
sivana southern thank you again and

509
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:21,620
people in Sydney don't forget that you

510
00:22:26,590 --> 00:22:24,050
can join the sydney podcasters meetup

511
00:22:28,390 --> 00:22:26,600
group let's go to meetup com and search

512
00:22:32,980 --> 00:22:28,400
for City podcasters we have a great time

513
00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:32,990
we toured to SCR radio station just two

514
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:34,910
nights ago I think yes and then repaired

515
00:22:38,860 --> 00:22:36,770
to the pub across the road for a beer

516
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:38,870
afterwards yes good and lots of talk

517
00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:41,570
everyone who comes is either wanting to

518
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:43,760
do a podcast is doing a podcast is

519
00:22:48,270 --> 00:22:45,650
passionate about podcasting and we

520
00:22:50,370 --> 00:22:48,280
workshop ideas and what's yours about

521
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:50,380
we all learned off each other which is

522
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:52,210
really cool and off each other and the

523
00:22:55,830 --> 00:22:54,250
conversation was very active found

524
00:22:58,110 --> 00:22:55,840
cheese day night so I was really pleased

525
00:22:59,460 --> 00:22:58,120
to hear it yeah excellent well look I

526
00:23:01,350 --> 00:22:59,470
put look forward to seeing you again

527
00:23:02,670 --> 00:23:01,360
soon at the next meetup and I hope you

528
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:02,680
can come to one of our meetups at

529
00:23:07,140 --> 00:23:04,210
skeptics in the pub that would be fun

530
00:23:08,850 --> 00:23:07,150
yes we've got a few lined up as

531
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:08,860
listeners know from the information in

532
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:10,930
this episode of skeptics earned a few

533
00:23:15,030 --> 00:23:12,570
special skeptics in the pub coming up

534
00:23:35,010 --> 00:23:15,040
but for now Siobhan thank you very much

535
00:23:39,850 --> 00:23:37,660
welcome to a week in science from our

536
00:23:42,670 --> 00:23:39,860
ions bringing you the science you need

537
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:42,680
to know the old saying no pain no gain

538
00:23:47,170 --> 00:23:45,290
seems to be spot on Australian spend

539
00:23:49,090 --> 00:23:47,180
about two billion dollars a year on

540
00:23:54,430 --> 00:23:49,100
sports injuries and there are some

541
00:23:59,860 --> 00:23:57,070
one way to reduce your injury risk is to

542
00:24:02,740 --> 00:23:59,870
do some pre-season training studies of

543
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:02,750
football codes show a 50 to 75 percent

544
00:24:07,019 --> 00:24:04,730
reduction in injury risk when a

545
00:24:09,490 --> 00:24:07,029
preseason regime includes strength

546
00:24:12,519 --> 00:24:09,500
flexibility and balance exercises

547
00:24:14,409 --> 00:24:12,529
without preseason conditioning athletes

548
00:24:16,749 --> 00:24:14,419
put a lot more strain on their bodies

549
00:24:19,899 --> 00:24:16,759
when the season starts leading to

550
00:24:22,330 --> 00:24:19,909
injuries but a word of warning a recent

551
00:24:24,970 --> 00:24:22,340
rugby analysis showed that really heavy

552
00:24:27,759 --> 00:24:24,980
preseason loads can increase your risk

553
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:27,769
of injury so while some preseason is

554
00:24:32,019 --> 00:24:29,600
good you probably shouldn't go crazy

555
00:24:34,539 --> 00:24:32,029
with it during the rest of the season an

556
00:24:36,940 --> 00:24:34,549
hour of weight training each week helps

557
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:36,950
prevent lower body injuries including

558
00:24:44,169 --> 00:24:41,690
your groin knees and hamstring now into

559
00:24:46,299 --> 00:24:44,179
warm ups while some studies disagree the

560
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:46,309
overall weight of evidence suggests that

561
00:24:51,399 --> 00:24:49,129
warm-ups are important warming up opens

562
00:24:53,499 --> 00:24:51,409
up your capillaries and increases blood

563
00:24:55,509 --> 00:24:53,509
flow to your muscles increasing their

564
00:24:58,419 --> 00:24:55,519
temperature and causing more efficient

565
00:25:00,490 --> 00:24:58,429
oxygen transfer studies using animals

566
00:25:02,529 --> 00:25:00,500
have also shown that more force and more

567
00:25:05,019 --> 00:25:02,539
lengthening is needed to injure a warm

568
00:25:07,659 --> 00:25:05,029
muscle unfortunately the evidence for

569
00:25:09,850 --> 00:25:07,669
cooldowns isn't as clear general muscle

570
00:25:11,919 --> 00:25:09,860
soreness after exercising is caused by

571
00:25:13,810 --> 00:25:11,929
tiny tears in your muscle fibers and

572
00:25:15,820 --> 00:25:13,820
cooling down doesn't help with that

573
00:25:18,430 --> 00:25:15,830
there's also little evidence that it

574
00:25:20,799 --> 00:25:18,440
prevents long-term injuries what it does

575
00:25:22,629 --> 00:25:20,809
do is allow your circulatory system to

576
00:25:24,909 --> 00:25:22,639
slowly return to normal while

577
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:24,919
maintaining proper blood pressure this

578
00:25:28,810 --> 00:25:26,690
prevents dizziness and fainting which

579
00:25:31,690 --> 00:25:28,820
can often occur after a hard session and

580
00:25:33,690 --> 00:25:31,700
now for fast facts about sport injury

581
00:25:36,250 --> 00:25:33,700
prevention

582
00:25:38,170 --> 00:25:36,260
over half a million Australians have a

583
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:38,180
long-term condition that can be blamed

584
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:41,360
on a sporting or exercise injury static

585
00:25:45,820 --> 00:25:43,850
stretching before exercise doesn't seem

586
00:25:47,740 --> 00:25:45,830
to prevent injury and can actually

587
00:25:49,810 --> 00:25:47,750
decrease your sprinting and jumping

588
00:25:51,850 --> 00:25:49,820
performance you can reduce your injury

589
00:25:53,860 --> 00:25:51,860
risk by having a day's rest between

590
00:25:55,810 --> 00:25:53,870
training sessions allowing your muscles

591
00:25:58,150 --> 00:25:55,820
to repair before punishing them again

592
00:26:00,880 --> 00:25:58,160
and static and dynamic stretching after

593
00:26:03,670 --> 00:26:00,890
you workout and on non exercising days

594
00:26:05,350 --> 00:26:03,680
can lower your injury risk that's it for

595
00:26:06,940 --> 00:26:05,360
this week in science for more

596
00:26:10,510 --> 00:26:06,950
information on the science of sports

597
00:26:13,210 --> 00:26:10,520
injuries go to the area's website RI aus

598
00:26:16,330 --> 00:26:13,220
org dot a you follow us on twitter at

599
00:26:38,700 --> 00:26:16,340
areas and like us on facebook i'm karen

600
00:26:45,149 --> 00:26:43,529
I am on it oh yeah i christen for weevil

601
00:26:46,830 --> 00:26:45,159
tips advice almost lifted all the

602
00:26:48,570 --> 00:26:46,840
skeptics ohm ohm skipped a comedian or

603
00:26:50,159 --> 00:26:48,580
again the finish can prob get upper

604
00:26:51,299 --> 00:26:50,169
bleph a podcast of ran against kept

605
00:26:53,909 --> 00:26:51,309
sustiva mary leakey for domestic

606
00:26:56,100 --> 00:26:53,919
dispatch center of escape system and

607
00:26:57,690 --> 00:26:56,110
loop or hand purposes the deep plane or

608
00:26:59,399 --> 00:26:57,700
textured and calendar or escape this

609
00:27:01,019 --> 00:26:59,409
calculated or like you till on will

610
00:27:02,580 --> 00:27:01,029
escape this killer sausage escapes his

611
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:02,590
blog in a plethora d Emily Oh discrete

612
00:27:07,010 --> 00:27:04,090
areas have tape escapees ramazzotti

613
00:27:10,350 --> 00:27:07,020
Keenum Delta yourself Skip's is top mmm

614
00:27:11,909 --> 00:27:10,360
hello I'm moderate and I'm Kristin and

615
00:27:13,710 --> 00:27:11,919
we want to let you know that there are

616
00:27:15,899 --> 00:27:13,720
lots of Norwegian skeptics for you to

617
00:27:17,549 --> 00:27:15,909
get to know their blogs and permits and

618
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:17,559
a podcast and the Norwegian skeptics

619
00:27:21,299 --> 00:27:19,330
also do paranormal tests and consumer

620
00:27:23,490 --> 00:27:21,309
activism to find out more Google

621
00:27:37,549 --> 00:27:23,500
Norwegian skeptics or visit skep

622
00:27:52,469 --> 00:27:41,519
it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi

623
00:27:55,799 --> 00:27:52,479
Robertson hello everyone few months ago

624
00:27:59,009 --> 00:27:55,809
I attended my very first psychic medium

625
00:28:02,279 --> 00:27:59,019
show in the Northern Rivers the alleged

626
00:28:04,409 --> 00:28:02,289
psychic I'm going to call her soo was

627
00:28:07,199 --> 00:28:04,419
from further down south and flying up

628
00:28:08,849 --> 00:28:07,209
for the event the only other time I've

629
00:28:11,219 --> 00:28:08,859
been to such a thing was a private

630
00:28:14,479 --> 00:28:11,229
reading from a tarot card reader when I

631
00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:14,489
visited Savannah Georgia many years ago

632
00:28:20,789 --> 00:28:17,289
it's one of the things as a tourist that

633
00:28:23,219 --> 00:28:20,799
you do in Savannah I was told as a side

634
00:28:24,930 --> 00:28:23,229
note that tarot card reader told me that

635
00:28:27,419 --> 00:28:24,940
I should break up with my boyfriend as

636
00:28:29,459 --> 00:28:27,429
he was no good for me turns out I

637
00:28:33,749 --> 00:28:29,469
married that boyfriend and we are still

638
00:28:36,209 --> 00:28:33,759
together 12 years later so I'd never

639
00:28:38,999 --> 00:28:36,219
attended a public psychic medium affair

640
00:28:42,389 --> 00:28:39,009
and thought as a skeptic the opportunity

641
00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:42,399
was too good to miss I got myself a copy

642
00:28:48,479 --> 00:28:45,849
of the full facts book of cold reading

643
00:28:50,369 --> 00:28:48,489
by Ian Rowland in order to better

644
00:28:53,729 --> 00:28:50,379
understand some of the techniques that

645
00:28:56,939 --> 00:28:53,739
may be used however for all I knew this

646
00:28:59,309 --> 00:28:56,949
one might be the real deal it's never a

647
00:29:01,889 --> 00:28:59,319
wasted effort to go prepared though just

648
00:29:05,549 --> 00:29:01,899
in case she turned out to be not the

649
00:29:08,609 --> 00:29:05,559
real deal I attended with two other

650
00:29:10,529 --> 00:29:08,619
friends one a fellow skeptic and one who

651
00:29:14,609 --> 00:29:10,539
was not entirely certain of her beliefs

652
00:29:16,589 --> 00:29:14,619
either way there were only 12 people in

653
00:29:18,989 --> 00:29:16,599
the audience including the three of us

654
00:29:21,029 --> 00:29:18,999
so the psychic told us right at the

655
00:29:25,439 --> 00:29:21,039
start that she would have time to give

656
00:29:28,169 --> 00:29:25,449
each of us a reading fantastic we

657
00:29:30,209 --> 00:29:28,179
decided not to pre book online to

658
00:29:32,399 --> 00:29:30,219
eliminate the possibility of any of our

659
00:29:35,129 --> 00:29:32,409
personal details being found out prior

660
00:29:37,439 --> 00:29:35,139
to the show we just turned up and bought

661
00:29:39,149 --> 00:29:37,449
the tickets at the door there was no

662
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:39,159
interaction with any of the other

663
00:29:44,299 --> 00:29:41,370
audience members staff or

664
00:29:46,580 --> 00:29:44,309
the medium prior to the show we were

665
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:46,590
asked when purchasing the tickets to

666
00:29:50,990 --> 00:29:48,809
write down any specific questions we

667
00:29:53,030 --> 00:29:51,000
wanted answered and put them in a box

668
00:29:56,540 --> 00:29:53,040
for the medium to take a look at and

669
00:29:59,840 --> 00:29:56,550
answer at the end of the show I must

670
00:30:02,660 --> 00:29:59,850
admit I felt a bit guilty writing down

671
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:02,670
the question is my brother okay on my

672
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:06,930
bit of paper I didn't specify and nor

673
00:30:11,780 --> 00:30:09,450
was I asked to at any point that my

674
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:11,790
brother is actually very much alive and

675
00:30:16,220 --> 00:30:14,370
well I was just interested in how the

676
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:16,230
question would be interpreted announce

677
00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:18,690
it and if the psychic was doing what she

678
00:30:22,940 --> 00:30:20,880
claimed to be doing she should either

679
00:30:25,490 --> 00:30:22,950
you would think pick up on the fact that

680
00:30:27,620 --> 00:30:25,500
I do not have a deceased brother or at

681
00:30:30,530 --> 00:30:27,630
the very least say that she cannot pick

682
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:30,540
up on any connection with him more about

683
00:30:38,299 --> 00:30:34,770
that later so in we went and sat down

684
00:30:40,340 --> 00:30:38,309
for the proceedings to begin according

685
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:40,350
to the cold reading book this part of

686
00:30:44,660 --> 00:30:42,330
the show is called the set up and

687
00:30:48,650 --> 00:30:44,670
involves a number of options that I

688
00:30:50,060 --> 00:30:48,660
noted were in fact use in here let's see

689
00:30:51,620 --> 00:30:50,070
how many parallels could be drawn

690
00:30:55,790 --> 00:30:51,630
between the techniques in the book and

691
00:30:58,310 --> 00:30:55,800
the show we were at from the book quote

692
00:31:00,320 --> 00:30:58,320
before the reading itself begins the

693
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:00,330
cold reader can take some preliminary

694
00:31:05,030 --> 00:31:02,250
steps to get the reading off to a good

695
00:31:07,220 --> 00:31:05,040
start the basic aim is to encourage a

696
00:31:09,380 --> 00:31:07,230
relaxed and cooperative atmosphere in

697
00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:09,390
which the client will neither challenge

698
00:31:14,270 --> 00:31:11,910
nor impede the cold reading process end

699
00:31:17,180 --> 00:31:14,280
quote some of the techniques used to

700
00:31:20,140 --> 00:31:17,190
achieve this include quote encouraging

701
00:31:23,210 --> 00:31:20,150
cooperative interpretation end quote

702
00:31:24,740 --> 00:31:23,220
that is asking right at the start for

703
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:24,750
audience members to help with the

704
00:31:29,780 --> 00:31:26,610
interpretation of the messages coming

705
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:29,790
through did sue the psychic medium do

706
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:33,360
this tick sue explained that sometimes

707
00:31:38,780 --> 00:31:35,250
the spirits will come through to her via

708
00:31:41,419 --> 00:31:38,790
a smell a taste a feeling or emotion and

709
00:31:43,460 --> 00:31:41,429
she then has to interpret and deliver it

710
00:31:45,710 --> 00:31:43,470
to us and that she may need

711
00:31:48,380 --> 00:31:45,720
clarification from us as to whether or

712
00:31:51,620 --> 00:31:48,390
not she is on the right path from the

713
00:31:54,050 --> 00:31:51,630
book quote setting the clients at ease

714
00:31:54,980 --> 00:31:54,060
which includes watching out for any fear

715
00:31:58,010 --> 00:31:54,990
or anxiety

716
00:32:00,169 --> 00:31:58,020
that could obstruct rapport for example

717
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:00,179
some clients are wary that the psychic

718
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:02,490
will see too much exposing darkest

719
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:07,760
secrets and quote did sue do this tick

720
00:32:12,980 --> 00:32:10,410
sue said right at the start that she

721
00:32:15,260 --> 00:32:12,990
never airs dirty laundry but may mention

722
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:15,270
it in private to us after the show to

723
00:32:21,980 --> 00:32:18,570
avoid any embarrassment from the book

724
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:21,990
quote checking for recent readings the

725
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:24,090
psychic asks if the client has had a

726
00:32:29,799 --> 00:32:26,850
reading before and if so how long ago

727
00:32:31,580 --> 00:32:29,809
the main reason for this is to avoid

728
00:32:34,790 --> 00:32:31,590
inadvertently giving conflicting

729
00:32:36,430 --> 00:32:34,800
readings to the same person provided two

730
00:32:38,570 --> 00:32:36,440
or three months of pass any

731
00:32:41,030 --> 00:32:38,580
discrepancies between the last reading

732
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:41,040
and the current one can be attributed to

733
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:43,710
changes in emphasis interpretation or

734
00:32:49,910 --> 00:32:48,090
influence end quote tick sue asked

735
00:32:52,940 --> 00:32:49,920
members of the audience who had been to

736
00:32:54,799 --> 00:32:52,950
see a psychic before no one had been to

737
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:54,809
see sue herself before which was not

738
00:32:59,690 --> 00:32:56,850
surprising since she came from further

739
00:33:02,540 --> 00:32:59,700
down south I put my hand up thinking of

740
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:02,550
the tarot card reader in Savannah one

741
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:05,760
other man put his hand up to she asked

742
00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:07,679
that man how he had found the previous

743
00:33:14,090 --> 00:33:10,880
experience to which he applied amazing

744
00:33:15,980 --> 00:33:14,100
he was extremely enthusiastic which was

745
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:15,990
interesting when seeing how his reading

746
00:33:20,740 --> 00:33:17,970
progressed later as opposed to others

747
00:33:24,260 --> 00:33:20,750
who are much more reticent participants

748
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:24,270
from the book quote supplying a

749
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:27,090
pre-emptive excuse for failure in her

750
00:33:31,610 --> 00:33:29,490
introductory remarks the psychic usually

751
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:31,620
offers an upfront excuse for any

752
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:33,840
outright failures which may arise later

753
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:38,490
and quote tick sue said if she referred

754
00:33:43,490 --> 00:33:40,650
to people who had passed and in fact

755
00:33:45,740 --> 00:33:43,500
they had not passed it may refer instead

756
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:45,750
to someone we know who knows someone who

757
00:33:50,330 --> 00:33:47,760
has passed and that she may also be

758
00:33:54,850 --> 00:33:50,340
interpreting messages as something that

759
00:33:57,590 --> 00:33:54,860
has not yet happened from the book quote

760
00:33:59,510 --> 00:33:57,600
creating an intimate atmosphere no

761
00:34:02,030 --> 00:33:59,520
matter how this intimate atmosphere is

762
00:34:03,799 --> 00:34:02,040
created the point is to dissuade the

763
00:34:06,409 --> 00:34:03,809
client from being too challenging or

764
00:34:08,430 --> 00:34:06,419
assertive it also promotes the sense of

765
00:34:10,349 --> 00:34:08,440
participation in a ritual

766
00:34:12,770 --> 00:34:10,359
rituals are a time-honored way of

767
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:12,780
constraining normal mental responses

768
00:34:17,149 --> 00:34:15,040
including the wait a minute this is all

769
00:34:19,740 --> 00:34:17,159
nonsense response and thereby

770
00:34:21,659 --> 00:34:19,750
conditioning behavior this is why

771
00:34:24,180 --> 00:34:21,669
rituals are found in every religion and

772
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:24,190
military organization the more time we

773
00:34:30,659 --> 00:34:26,530
invest in a ritual the harder it becomes

774
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:30,669
to break free of it and quote tick we

775
00:34:34,260 --> 00:34:32,649
sat at tables and on lounges close

776
00:34:36,450 --> 00:34:34,270
together with dimmed lighting and

777
00:34:38,940 --> 00:34:36,460
candles on the tables the ritual

778
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:38,950
involved getting us all up and dancing

779
00:34:45,089 --> 00:34:41,679
to loud music which would ensues words

780
00:34:47,220 --> 00:34:45,099
raise our vibrations so she could more

781
00:34:50,430 --> 00:34:47,230
easily connect to our deceased friends

782
00:34:53,129 --> 00:34:50,440
and family considering i look like a

783
00:34:56,159 --> 00:34:53,139
drunk octopus when i try to dance this

784
00:34:57,990 --> 00:34:56,169
didn't do much to raise my vibrations so

785
00:35:00,420 --> 00:34:58,000
perhaps it's my fault that I can't dance

786
00:35:04,260 --> 00:35:00,430
which ultimately led to the results of

787
00:35:06,690 --> 00:35:04,270
my reading but first up was my friends

788
00:35:08,370 --> 00:35:06,700
reading I'm going to call her an the one

789
00:35:10,349 --> 00:35:08,380
who was not certain of her beliefs

790
00:35:12,990 --> 00:35:10,359
either way with regards to the

791
00:35:14,970 --> 00:35:13,000
paranormal and thank you Richard

792
00:35:18,839 --> 00:35:14,980
Saunders for helping me dissect these

793
00:35:21,210 --> 00:35:18,849
readings the first connection sue said

794
00:35:24,420 --> 00:35:21,220
she had was a tall gentleman on Ann's

795
00:35:27,300 --> 00:35:24,430
dad's side who passed two generations

796
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:27,310
ago and was not giving much away looking

797
00:35:31,410 --> 00:35:30,010
unsure and Sue finally settled on the

798
00:35:34,319 --> 00:35:31,420
fact that it was Anne's great

799
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:34,329
grandfather she asked and if he had ever

800
00:35:39,329 --> 00:35:36,640
served in a war and said that he was

801
00:35:41,730 --> 00:35:39,339
showing her a light horse hat when an

802
00:35:43,730 --> 00:35:41,740
remained unsure sue asked her to go back

803
00:35:46,230 --> 00:35:43,740
and check with her family after the show

804
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:46,240
this is a technique that Richard calls

805
00:35:50,819 --> 00:35:48,400
for the pipe ploy this is where the

806
00:35:53,250 --> 00:35:50,829
psychic tells the subject to check when

807
00:35:54,809 --> 00:35:53,260
they go home to the audience it looks

808
00:35:56,700 --> 00:35:54,819
like the psychic knows something about

809
00:35:59,010 --> 00:35:56,710
the subjects family the subject doesn't

810
00:36:02,910 --> 00:35:59,020
even know it's a classic way to turn a

811
00:36:05,370 --> 00:36:02,920
Miss into a hit soothe then suddenly

812
00:36:08,099 --> 00:36:05,380
change tack and asked and if she owned a

813
00:36:10,380 --> 00:36:08,109
shop which was a mess several variations

814
00:36:12,660 --> 00:36:10,390
on this question followed are you

815
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:12,670
looking at opening a shop are you with

816
00:36:16,859 --> 00:36:14,650
someone that owns a shop what about a

817
00:36:18,839 --> 00:36:16,869
store someone connected to you own a

818
00:36:21,450 --> 00:36:18,849
shop do your work with someone that owns

819
00:36:22,260 --> 00:36:21,460
a shop many questions which frankly

820
00:36:24,450 --> 00:36:22,270
anyone could

821
00:36:28,170 --> 00:36:24,460
there is nothing psychic about asking

822
00:36:30,300 --> 00:36:28,180
for information this line of questioning

823
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:30,310
with the net being cast wider and wider

824
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:32,800
is sure to get a hit at some point and

825
00:36:38,940 --> 00:36:36,010
sure enough eventually and said yes she

826
00:36:40,860 --> 00:36:38,950
does work in a shop part time soon

827
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:40,870
continues to get mrs. with the questions

828
00:36:48,090 --> 00:36:43,770
about the shop with an responding no no

829
00:36:50,550 --> 00:36:48,100
no sue ended up straight out asking and

830
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:50,560
to tell her what kind of shop it was she

831
00:36:55,260 --> 00:36:52,960
worked in a gift wear shop was the

832
00:36:56,940 --> 00:36:55,270
answer to which sue said that the

833
00:36:58,350 --> 00:36:56,950
gentleman that had passed over was

834
00:37:02,040 --> 00:36:58,360
telling her that she could go into

835
00:37:03,660 --> 00:37:02,050
business for herself and open a shop sue

836
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:03,670
finished off anne's reading with another

837
00:37:09,180 --> 00:37:06,160
question who is the woman who is nearly

838
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:09,190
due for a baby in other words just

839
00:37:13,890 --> 00:37:11,770
asking and if she knows anyone that's

840
00:37:16,380 --> 00:37:13,900
pregnant a reasonable chance this would

841
00:37:17,670 --> 00:37:16,390
be a hit given Ann's age and the friends

842
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:17,680
and colleagues who would be in their

843
00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:20,410
childbearing age and yes and does indeed

844
00:37:25,170 --> 00:37:23,200
have a friend who is pregnant sue tells

845
00:37:27,540 --> 00:37:25,180
and that the deceased gentleman is now

846
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:27,550
telling her that Ann's friends baby is

847
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:29,890
going to come three or four weeks early

848
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:32,050
so could an please tell her friend to

849
00:37:37,470 --> 00:37:35,170
pack her bags and be ready okay that may

850
00:37:40,350 --> 00:37:37,480
or may not turn out to be a hit some

851
00:37:43,260 --> 00:37:40,360
babies come early the tally from Ann's

852
00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:43,270
reading was for tentative hits and seven

853
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:47,440
mrs. next that was a keen and wildly

854
00:37:52,170 --> 00:37:49,330
enthusiastic young man from the start

855
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:52,180
I'm going to call him bill sue starts

856
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:54,490
off with three questions what's your

857
00:37:59,880 --> 00:37:56,650
name do you have a grandfather that used

858
00:38:02,280 --> 00:37:59,890
to smoke a pipe yes bill does if bill

859
00:38:04,470 --> 00:38:02,290
had said no sue would have a number of

860
00:38:06,930 --> 00:38:04,480
options including just moving on to

861
00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:06,940
another question the third question was

862
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:09,280
has this grandfather passed which was

863
00:38:14,250 --> 00:38:11,890
also a hit sue says she thought so

864
00:38:16,470 --> 00:38:14,260
because she can smell his pipe and he is

865
00:38:18,870 --> 00:38:16,480
wearing a hat note that now that soon

866
00:38:20,850 --> 00:38:18,880
knows the grandfather smoked a pipe she

867
00:38:24,180 --> 00:38:20,860
can use the smell of the pipe as if she

868
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:24,190
knew also men of that generation wore

869
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:26,770
hats as a rule so not an impressive hit

870
00:38:32,370 --> 00:38:29,290
however bill is laughing and nodding

871
00:38:34,650 --> 00:38:32,380
enthusiastically she changed tack and

872
00:38:35,730 --> 00:38:34,660
asked who the woman is who is in a

873
00:38:38,660 --> 00:38:35,740
wheelchair and

874
00:38:41,460 --> 00:38:38,670
question nope bill can't think of anyone

875
00:38:43,470 --> 00:38:41,470
sue says she may no longer be in a

876
00:38:46,620 --> 00:38:43,480
wheelchair but at some point had trouble

877
00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:46,630
walking Bill's eyes light up it's a hit

878
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:50,320
now sue asks another question was it his

879
00:38:56,070 --> 00:38:53,890
grandfather's sister no bill says but he

880
00:38:58,590 --> 00:38:56,080
then volunteers the information that he

881
00:39:02,430 --> 00:38:58,600
thinks it was his grandfather's latest

882
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:02,440
partner the wording latest partner would

883
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:04,810
indicate that bills grandfather had more

884
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:06,850
than one and perhaps several partners

885
00:39:12,510 --> 00:39:09,970
who jumps on this asking if he had three

886
00:39:16,020 --> 00:39:12,520
women in his life yes he had three

887
00:39:19,410 --> 00:39:16,030
daughters sue says he loved women yes

888
00:39:21,450 --> 00:39:19,420
yes bill exclaims I'm not sure it's

889
00:39:24,900 --> 00:39:21,460
unusual for a straight man to love women

890
00:39:27,390 --> 00:39:24,910
in my experience most do sue says that

891
00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:27,400
the grandfather is very funny and making

892
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:29,440
it difficult for her to concentrate that

893
00:39:34,620 --> 00:39:31,690
he seems to be a real charmer bill

894
00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:34,630
cannot stop nodding and smiling sue

895
00:39:39,450 --> 00:39:36,400
relates that grandfather is currently

896
00:39:42,210 --> 00:39:39,460
saying I loved women we already knew

897
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:42,220
that as bill had just confirmed it she

898
00:39:45,540 --> 00:39:44,050
then said that grandfather is telling

899
00:39:47,720 --> 00:39:45,550
her that he had two women in his life

900
00:39:51,210 --> 00:39:47,730
that he loved and they have both passed

901
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:51,220
bill looks dubious and Sue changes the

902
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:53,650
subject asking if bill has a cousin who

903
00:40:00,270 --> 00:39:57,490
has passed no sue now has a younger man

904
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:00,280
with her who has passed over nope no

905
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:03,010
hits there for bill sue then realizes

906
00:40:07,650 --> 00:40:05,290
surprisingly that the man is not

907
00:40:09,810 --> 00:40:07,660
connected with bill so she turns to the

908
00:40:11,609 --> 00:40:09,820
rest of the audience and asks if anyone

909
00:40:14,970 --> 00:40:11,619
has a young man that has passed from a

910
00:40:17,550 --> 00:40:14,980
head injury no one immediately reacts so

911
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:17,560
she turns back to Bill and gets a series

912
00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:19,690
of mrs. before suddenly turning to the

913
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:23,310
young woman with him I'll call her Mary

914
00:40:28,109 --> 00:40:26,050
Mary's reading begins with a series of

915
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:28,119
questions about their relationship which

916
00:40:32,820 --> 00:40:30,010
is just information gathering and

917
00:40:34,950 --> 00:40:32,830
nothing more she then informs Mary that

918
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:34,960
bills grandfather approves of her and

919
00:40:40,230 --> 00:40:37,450
that bill really loves her how long have

920
00:40:43,230 --> 00:40:40,240
they been together she asks six weeks

921
00:40:46,140 --> 00:40:43,240
Mary replies sue informs them that they

922
00:40:49,020 --> 00:40:46,150
will be together for 18 years there is

923
00:40:49,620 --> 00:40:49,030
lots of embarrassed laughter she gets a

924
00:40:51,420 --> 00:40:49,630
couple more

925
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:51,430
saying that they have been in the same

926
00:40:54,749 --> 00:40:53,410
group of friends for a while and then

927
00:40:57,809 --> 00:40:54,759
that they knew each other when they were

928
00:40:59,430 --> 00:40:57,819
younger no and no she settles on the

929
00:41:02,519 --> 00:40:59,440
fact that they must have known each

930
00:41:05,039 --> 00:41:02,529
other in a past life of course something

931
00:41:08,460 --> 00:41:05,049
that no one can verify even if one does

932
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:08,470
subscribe to one having past lives the

933
00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:10,690
awkwardness increases when sue informs

934
00:41:15,299 --> 00:41:12,400
Mary that she will be having bills

935
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:15,309
babies and sooner than expected probably

936
00:41:20,009 --> 00:41:17,440
before Christmas and before she gets

937
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:20,019
herself a wedding ring perhaps due to

938
00:41:24,779 --> 00:41:22,690
marry being red-faced and looking like

939
00:41:28,019 --> 00:41:24,789
she wanted to sink into a hole at this

940
00:41:30,210 --> 00:41:28,029
point sue changes the subject another

941
00:41:33,210 --> 00:41:30,220
question asking if mary has a brother

942
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:33,220
yes she does she says she has one

943
00:41:40,259 --> 00:41:36,640
brother su pulls out a classic psychic

944
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:40,269
technique where is the M&P connection

945
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:43,450
with your brother now anyone that Mary

946
00:41:48,779 --> 00:41:45,490
comes up with that has one or both of

947
00:41:51,630 --> 00:41:48,789
these letters will be a hit however Mary

948
00:41:54,089 --> 00:41:51,640
cannot think of anyone sue changes tack

949
00:41:57,870 --> 00:41:54,099
she asks another question has your

950
00:42:00,089 --> 00:41:57,880
great-grandmother passed why yes and as

951
00:42:02,339 --> 00:42:00,099
most people of Mary's age would have had

952
00:42:04,620 --> 00:42:02,349
their great-grandmother passed it wasn't

953
00:42:06,690 --> 00:42:04,630
too impressive suddenly the

954
00:42:09,749 --> 00:42:06,700
great-grandmother I shall call her Daisy

955
00:42:12,539 --> 00:42:09,759
is with Sue in spirit she goes back to

956
00:42:15,420 --> 00:42:12,549
the MLP thing is it Michael or Matt no

957
00:42:19,859 --> 00:42:15,430
Peter no what's your brother's second

958
00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:19,869
name Mike I hit it went on like this

959
00:42:24,359 --> 00:42:21,730
with other readings being similarly

960
00:42:26,490 --> 00:42:24,369
underwhelming what was particularly

961
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:26,500
upsetting was when sue asked an elderly

962
00:42:32,519 --> 00:42:29,200
lady about a man who had died in a car

963
00:42:35,039 --> 00:42:32,529
accident sue started describing massive

964
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:35,049
head injuries and indicated on herself

965
00:42:42,359 --> 00:42:37,450
where the neck and head injuries would

966
00:42:45,539 --> 00:42:42,369
have been my reading was last there was

967
00:42:48,059 --> 00:42:45,549
in the 15 minute reading three tenuous

968
00:42:50,190 --> 00:42:48,069
hits we're sooo guests I had a son with

969
00:42:52,769 --> 00:42:50,200
blond hair and that he was the younger

970
00:42:54,660 --> 00:42:52,779
of the two I say tenuous because that

971
00:42:56,670 --> 00:42:54,670
question to which i answered in the

972
00:42:58,890 --> 00:42:56,680
affirmative was prefaced by the

973
00:43:03,240 --> 00:42:58,900
questions do you have three children

974
00:43:06,750 --> 00:43:03,250
know how many children do you have to

975
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:06,760
do you have a boy who is fair yes now is

976
00:43:13,620 --> 00:43:08,650
your fair headed boy the younger of the

977
00:43:15,900 --> 00:43:13,630
two yes questions all questions the

978
00:43:19,170 --> 00:43:15,910
other tenuous hitch was when she asked

979
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:19,180
what the initials BB stood for I didn't

980
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:21,370
know but after several more questions

981
00:43:27,060 --> 00:43:23,920
from her she counted it as a hit that my

982
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:27,070
father-in-law's name is Bob Bob surname

983
00:43:34,860 --> 00:43:30,130
does not start with a be and yet it was

984
00:43:37,110 --> 00:43:34,870
a hit because bob has two bees in it bob

985
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:37,120
is still alive and nothing was mentioned

986
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:39,850
about how the initials were relevant but

987
00:43:46,620 --> 00:43:42,250
there was an emphatic repetitive I got

988
00:43:49,830 --> 00:43:46,630
it from sue I counted forty seven other

989
00:43:52,290 --> 00:43:49,840
questions in the remaining minutes that

990
00:43:55,140 --> 00:43:52,300
she asked of me none of which were hits

991
00:43:57,300 --> 00:43:55,150
once again the pipe ploy was used a

992
00:43:59,700 --> 00:43:57,310
couple of times when she told me to go

993
00:44:02,460 --> 00:43:59,710
back to my husband side of the family to

994
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:02,470
ask if any of them had vertigo but apart

995
00:44:08,430 --> 00:44:06,130
from that it was all questions so today

996
00:44:11,820 --> 00:44:08,440
I did in fact call my father-in-law to

997
00:44:13,470 --> 00:44:11,830
follow up as sue had asked me to do he's

998
00:44:17,340 --> 00:44:13,480
the recording of that part of the phone

999
00:44:20,370 --> 00:44:17,350
call with his permission um so she was

1000
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:20,380
she specifically said she thought it was

1001
00:44:26,220 --> 00:44:22,930
your mother who suffered from either

1002
00:44:28,260 --> 00:44:26,230
vertigo or bouts of dizziness and when I

1003
00:44:29,850 --> 00:44:28,270
said I didn't know she said go back and

1004
00:44:33,030 --> 00:44:29,860
check with the family which is what I'm

1005
00:44:35,220 --> 00:44:33,040
doing now so so she didn't suffer from

1006
00:44:37,980 --> 00:44:35,230
dizziness or vertigo that you know of no

1007
00:44:40,980 --> 00:44:37,990
not at all and she lived till ninety

1008
00:44:44,330 --> 00:44:40,990
with enjoys your own ID in clearing okay

1009
00:44:48,330 --> 00:44:44,340
yeah and the other thing she asked was

1010
00:44:51,630 --> 00:44:48,340
did she suffer from loss of memory or

1011
00:44:53,970 --> 00:44:51,640
dementia and I'm pretty sure you said no

1012
00:44:57,540 --> 00:44:53,980
she was pretty much sharp as a tack kuat

1013
00:44:59,370 --> 00:44:57,550
sherpa forgot yep yeah okay and so then

1014
00:45:04,040 --> 00:44:59,380
she said well maybe the dizziness or

1015
00:45:06,900 --> 00:45:04,050
vertigo has to do with somebody else on

1016
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:06,910
your side of the family someone that's

1017
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:09,610
not telling anyone else that they suffer

1018
00:45:15,180 --> 00:45:12,250
from dizziness or vertigo well we're

1019
00:45:16,620 --> 00:45:15,190
going my sister and she doesn't suffer

1020
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:16,630
for it I'm again

1021
00:45:25,090 --> 00:45:21,650
yes and you die from emphysema and what

1022
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:25,100
about you no one does what I'm with

1023
00:45:36,460 --> 00:45:32,240
Rhonda all right well that answers the

1024
00:45:38,590 --> 00:45:36,470
questions thank you well at the end of

1025
00:45:41,610 --> 00:45:38,600
the show sue read out the questions we

1026
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:41,620
had put in a box for her mine came out

1027
00:45:48,490 --> 00:45:46,850
is my brother okay at first sue said she

1028
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:48,500
had trouble getting in touch with him

1029
00:45:55,540 --> 00:45:51,530
but then he came through to her loud and

1030
00:46:00,100 --> 00:45:55,550
clear and she told me that he said I am

1031
00:46:02,260 --> 00:46:00,110
okay now a couple of days later I called

1032
00:46:04,770 --> 00:46:02,270
my brother and told him he had come

1033
00:46:07,180 --> 00:46:04,780
through to a psychic while still alive

1034
00:46:09,190 --> 00:46:07,190
strangely he had forgotten that instant

1035
00:46:11,020 --> 00:46:09,200
where he telepathically communicated

1036
00:46:13,330 --> 00:46:11,030
with a psychic medium two days prior to

1037
00:46:16,690 --> 00:46:13,340
tell me that he's okay there is a

1038
00:46:19,570 --> 00:46:16,700
postscript to this story last night I

1039
00:46:21,250 --> 00:46:19,580
found out that the baby that the psychic

1040
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:21,260
said was coming three to four weeks

1041
00:46:27,790 --> 00:46:23,930
early has just arrived into the world

1042
00:46:32,590 --> 00:46:27,800
safe and sound by a planned cesarean

1043
00:46:34,870 --> 00:46:32,600
section on the mothers due date so to

1044
00:46:37,930 --> 00:46:34,880
wrap up the experience it was well worth

1045
00:46:40,030 --> 00:46:37,940
while I was seriously underwhelmed but

1046
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:40,040
it was easy to see how people who wanted

1047
00:46:44,830 --> 00:46:42,050
so much to believe would latch on to

1048
00:46:47,500 --> 00:46:44,840
even a tenuous hit and make it fit with

1049
00:46:50,100 --> 00:46:47,510
what they want to hear it really is

1050
00:46:52,210 --> 00:46:50,110
preying on people who are vulnerable I

1051
00:46:54,580 --> 00:46:52,220
don't know if there are any genuine

1052
00:46:57,310 --> 00:46:54,590
psychic mediums out there I'd have to

1053
00:46:58,900 --> 00:46:57,320
say I'm still highly skeptical but what

1054
00:47:02,400 --> 00:46:58,910
I do know is that this particular

1055
00:47:05,650 --> 00:47:02,410
psychic medium did not convince me

1056
00:47:22,910 --> 00:47:05,660
that's all from me for now i'll catch

1057
00:47:28,370 --> 00:47:25,760
here is a roundup of upcoming skeptical

1058
00:47:30,740 --> 00:47:28,380
events Susan go back will now be making

1059
00:47:33,140 --> 00:47:30,750
two speaking appearances in Sydney the

1060
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:33,150
first one is the special Sydney skeptics

1061
00:47:38,359 --> 00:47:35,490
in the pub on the night of thursday the

1062
00:47:40,700 --> 00:47:38,369
eighth of october at the crown hotel now

1063
00:47:42,620 --> 00:47:40,710
this replaces the regular skeptics in

1064
00:47:45,319 --> 00:47:42,630
the pub that was to be on the first of

1065
00:47:46,819 --> 00:47:45,329
October please spread the word if you

1066
00:47:49,700 --> 00:47:46,829
know anybody who comes to skeptics in

1067
00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:49,710
the pub in sydney at in october skeptics

1068
00:47:54,740 --> 00:47:52,049
in the pub will be one week later with

1069
00:47:56,809 --> 00:47:54,750
special guest susan gurbin there on

1070
00:47:59,630 --> 00:47:56,819
Sunday the 11th that stratton's hotel

1071
00:48:01,760 --> 00:47:59,640
starting from 1pm Susan will be giving a

1072
00:48:04,579 --> 00:48:01,770
talk on skeptical activism and a

1073
00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:04,589
workshop on how to edit Wikipedia bring

1074
00:48:08,870 --> 00:48:06,510
your laptop if you want or just come

1075
00:48:11,180 --> 00:48:08,880
along and enjoy the afternoon entry is

1076
00:48:14,450 --> 00:48:11,190
free and there's plenty of ten dollar

1077
00:48:20,030 --> 00:48:14,460
pub lunch on the menu head over to

1078
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:20,040
meetup com /a ust skeptics to let us

1079
00:48:25,059 --> 00:48:22,890
know if you're coming along Susan will

1080
00:48:27,470 --> 00:48:25,069
also be talking at the following events

1081
00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:27,480
September 30th of the maury Alex

1082
00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:29,730
skeptics October the first for the

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00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:32,160
Victorian skeptics October the 3rd to

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00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:34,880
the 4th launceston bring your laptop

1085
00:48:40,250 --> 00:48:38,160
october sixth canberra at the Australian

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00:48:43,250 --> 00:48:40,260
National University check with your

1087
00:48:45,140 --> 00:48:43,260
local skeptics for more details and for

1088
00:48:48,140 --> 00:48:45,150
those of you in the Illawarra and

1089
00:48:52,039 --> 00:48:48,150
Wollongong there's the monthly skeptics

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00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:52,049
at dicey rileys 333 crown street and

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00:49:22,840 --> 00:48:56,160
that's at seven p.m. on tuesday and 29

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00:49:28,220 --> 00:49:25,280
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1093
00:49:31,490 --> 00:49:28,230
zone and get better soon Richard and to

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00:49:33,590 --> 00:49:31,500
help you on your way to recovery i have

1095
00:49:36,260 --> 00:49:33,600
here with me Hugo the six-year-old

1096
00:49:40,270 --> 00:49:36,270
budding scientists who has a joke to

1097
00:49:43,870 --> 00:49:40,280
cheer you up Hugo what's your joke why

1098
00:49:46,910 --> 00:49:43,880
did scientists take off his doorbell I

1099
00:49:49,550 --> 00:49:46,920
don't know why did the scientist take

1100
00:49:52,220 --> 00:49:49,560
off his doorbell because he wanted to

1101
00:49:54,740 --> 00:49:52,230
win the Nobel Prize you wanted to win

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00:49:57,770 --> 00:49:54,750
the Nobel Prize that's fantastic thanks

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00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:57,780
Hugo but for now this is Heidi Robertson

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00:50:07,370 --> 00:50:00,240
signing off from the far north coast of

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00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:07,380
New South Wales Australia you've been

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00:50:13,609 --> 00:50:09,050
listening to the skeptics own podcast

1107
00:50:16,220 --> 00:50:13,619
visit our website at WCA pegs on TV for

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00:50:20,300 --> 00:50:16,230
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00:50:22,430 --> 00:50:20,310
since 2008 and our online store please

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00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:22,440
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1111
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00:50:33,980 --> 00:50:31,109
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1115
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00:50:41,660 --> 00:50:39,600
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00:50:43,849 --> 00:50:41,670
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00:50:46,730 --> 00:50:43,859
and not necessarily those of Australian

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00:50:48,410 --> 00:50:46,740
skeptically or any other skeptical